Sitting Owl's Spiritual Forum

I recently had the following enquiry and though what transpired in the discussion was worth posting here. I will keep the person anonymous. I hope it helps you all understand a few things about relationships.

Yours in Spirit
Sitting Owl (Administrator)


Hello Sitting Owl,

I had a discussion with my friend about men who are healers and who believe in free love and polygamy preaching that ALL ARE ONE, and sexual energy is as much healing as eternal energy. They also justify their actions as being non attachment and unconditional love.
Although, I do agree that sexual energy can be healing, I do not agree with "free Love" (polygamy), as I feel it happens when a person has not completely dealt with their personal issues and feels incomplete within, he seeks satisfaction outside in the world. It also dis-empowers women, as the constant mix of energies confuse them and they loose power within as a goddess, especially if she is in a vulnerable state, they also suffer with mixed feelings and competition, as natural selection. Also, I do believe in monogamous relationships, as through sharing intimacy with one person it is possible to transfer your energy to higher energy.
What are your views on polygamy? I know that most forest people (tribes) live that way...

Its just interesting to understand a different man's perspectives, especially healer's like you... Sorry if its a bit of an awkward enquiry...

Namaste' Anomynous

VERY GOOD QUESTION! I actually have a lot to say on the matter and any awkwardness would be due me not understanding the dynamics of it all; as most men and women in our society don’t, but I will do my best to be brief . Also see ‘Duality and the Order of Life and Energy’.

Yes I know the sleaze bags that don’t realise the damage they are doing to themselves, the women they come into contact with, and the healing industry; not to mention the brush that paints a picture of all men in the minds of women. This is because our society is quite sick and diseased, and this is just one of the many symptoms of a society that does not understand nature.

You very rightly picked up on a shamanic truth as I learnt from Fred Alan Wolf (the quantum physicist) that love and sexual energy is healing energy, but so too is photon (light) energy; and that doesn’t mean that the 50’s and 60’s hippy era of ‘free love’ (root anything and everything you desire) is the right answer, unless the question is how to over populate the earth. Actually the head hunter tribes had a really good answer to the population problem; a couple was not permitted to have a child until they got themselves a head. Which means that someone in the community had to die first; and that didn’t necessarily mean killing.

I will now speak of my understanding of how most indigenous people see polygamy (having more than one wife). If you understand the importance and respect that is given to women in those cultures you may have heard that it was quite within a wife’s right to leave the husband’s stuff at the door when he came home from hunting or whatever men do. This would make the man almost redundant in his tribe and he would have to go to another tribe to survive; if possible. So he would have to have done something pretty bad for that which is practically a death sentence. Only the very balanced and wise men ever had more than one wife and each wife would be treated as women expected to be treated; with utmost respect, gratitude, and honour.

Now to understand the more instinctual basis of sexual relations we can look at our slightly older relatives the chimpanzees and apes. Here in spite of the aggressive alpha male who ‘owns’ all the women this sort of thing still happened. However as women always have and always will have the last say as to who they have sex with, these females still chose to have sex with whomever they liked when the alpha male was not watching; usually on the outskirts of his territory or while he was sleeping. So again in all of nature the men are always looking for it, but only get it either through force, flattery, respect, or in the case you give, cunning deception. So you can see that it is mainly the women that choose who, when, if, where, and how many partners they have sex with. Nothing has really changed except the sophistication of the force, flattery, and deception; its time we learnt about the respect bit.

I would love to have a few wives looking after my needs and desires, but I really can’t look after one properly in this day and age; and desires are what keep me from my bliss. If that’s my fault, their fault, or just Great Spirit’s need to keep me focused on what is important, I don’t know, but I do know that every attempt has failed at just keeping one woman in my life and having a ‘relationship’. I have plenty of female friends, like you, but I don’t think I will ever have a ‘partner’. I have used the ‘_’ deliberately because I think I told you what the Dalia Lama says about romance and I find that that is what most women equate ‘relationship’ with; and ‘partner’ is usually a business relationship, just like most marriages in our society.

Mitakuye Oyasin means we are always in a relationship with all of life and this is where my last ‘partner’ could not understand that what she was wanting in a ‘relationship’ is what everyone deserves; and everyone also needs to feel special. I do in fact love, respect, and deeply care for every form that life takes including the things like ashtrays, glasses, plates, and spoons etc. They are our brothers too and deserve to be looked after, used and not abused or just tossed out of the way when we are not using it. That’s where she called me a perfectionist, but I know that only Great Spirit is perfect.

I could go on for hours here explaining what I mean, since I understand that everyone has some deep in ground thoughts, feelings, and cellular memories around this subject, not to mention that the coming together of the pairs of opposites (sex) is the ultimate in spiritual symbolism; as when the ‘male’ stem of the sacred pipe is inserted into the ‘female’, ‘Mother Earth’ bowl which also ‘receives’ the tobacco mix. Female is the Great Receiver of everything that needs to be made manifest. Quoting Joseph Campbell:

“The man’s function is to act.”
“The woman’s function is to be.”

“She’s “It.” She is Mother Earth.”

“Where agriculture is a main means of support, there are earth and Goddess powers.”
“Where hunting predominates, it’s male initiative that empowers the killing of animals.”

“Male = social order.”
“Female = nature order.”

“The male’s job is to relate to life.”
“The female’s job is to become it.”

“The Goddess gives birth to forms and kills, or takes these forms back.”

“Where male power dominates, you have separation.”
“Where female power dominates, there’s a non-dual, embracing quality.”

Hello Sitting Owl,

Thanks for your sharing. Very interesting....

I did study a lot about apes and various cultures who lived in polygamy. What I did not understand is, what if the couple after experiencing "freedom Love" and the ability to manage several relationships, decides to move on, what about feelings? As far as science is concerned women get attached to men more (in terms of feelings) then men to women. Even though both parties originally agreed about mutual sex and continuity of sexual acts with other partners, isn’t this more of a drive by desire than by love. And doesn't it become a sexual addiction, which encourages a man's/ woman’s (rarely) power drive?

And if the man does no longer treat the woman the way she expects him too, doesn't she carry a burden, if they have a child by raising it alone, or she has to follow him and accept his polygamous relationship while seeing him with other woman and helping out with their kids?

I know men and women, who expect those types of relationships to be independent and their kids to be raised by community. Although community aspect is acceptable in child’s life, I still strongly believe, that each child requires both parents for better care and psychological development. My view from this type of man’s/ woman's view is called catholic influence.

And also, jealousy is a natural human feeling. To expect complete non attachment of women from a man’s point of view, after continuous sexual relationships is not possible, especially when a child is involved. To see a man while they engage with other women (in sexual relationship), but maintains regular relationship with a certain one I think is unmanageable in the long run. In every polygamous culture jealousy plays a big role and ignites competition.

I believe, men can have this opportunity as they do not necessary carry the responsibility of raising children, but fulfilling their own desires and preaching the support of the community in general, rather than one particular woman. Women can accept this responsibility at one point , but in the long run they suffer trying to managing all the responsibilities on their own, or leaving their child to be raised by the community.

Sometimes, I feel that spirituality has nothing to do with it. I feel that desire or addiction of desire is driven in ignorance. I doubt that men who are able to have several women and women who are able to have several relationships with men are able to transfer sexual energies into higher energies each time. And this type of society is called normal for those who believe in it, I feel it develops ill functioning and comfortable irresponsibility of both parties to their future children.
I agree more in north American Indian views:

“The goal of family and parental support, within the context of the American-Indian family of origin, is to foster interdependence. The family serves as a facilitator in the development of its members and does so according to family or cultural role, not necessarily according to age (Red Horse 1980). Family and parental support encompasses cultural and spiritual maintenance, satisfaction of physical and emotional needs, and the themes of providing care, being cared for, and preparing to care for, throughout the lifespan. In this regard, the family is strengthened and a lifelong interdependence among members is fostered. This approach to familial support contrasts with European-American family support in that the goal of the latter is independence of members rather than interdependence among members.”

I don't indend to blame anyone here, but I want to understand the purpose, advantages and disadvantages of polygamouse societies, their believes and actions and the benefits to the world at large.

Namaste' Anonymous

I understand what you are saying, but there are two very important points you have missed. I’m sure that a good 90% or more of ‘Western Women’ would agree with everything you have said, but as I said our society is quite sick and diseased. So any member of that world will have a diseased thinking pattern. One of the symptoms of this is that 90% or more of ‘Western Men’ don’t understand the energies that flow through them, lust being just one; but also the women don’t understand the energies that flow through them either. It may be that I am the only one in my society, which is why I am so critical of ‘New agers’, ‘Working for a Living’, actually the whole concept of ‘Work’, and ‘Romance’, ‘Feelings’, and ‘Attachment’. Although even the Budda said that grasping in the form of attachment is the cause of ALL suffering. However the concept of attachment to the sincere dedication to the oneness is what Mitakuye Oyasin is all about.

Mostly what you were saying was about considering the ‘feelings’ of women, but you don’t understand that those ‘feelings’ are cellular memories put there through belief systems from, say, the Victorian era and they equate to what the Dalia Lama was talking about regarding romance:

“The idealisation of this romantic love can be seen as an extreme. Unlike those relationships based on caring and genuine affection… It cannot be seen as a positive thing, it’s something that is based on fantasy, unattainable, and therefore may be a source of frustration.”

It is the genuine caring, interdependence (I depend on you for… and you can depend on me for…), and respect that are the most important things in ANY relationship. Like the first and most important relationship, that with Great Spirit, we must have that true sincerity and dedication that come from caring about the life force. If that relationship is not good (as it is for 90% or more of our dominant western world), then every other relationship will be screwed (excuse the pun), and that is where we are at.

I won’t go too much further since I think my waffling may confuse you and if you are like the 90% or more of the western world you may never understand this stuff because it is too basic and that 90% + have cellular memory belief systems that are too complex. That was why I had to experience my schizophrenic crack up; my death to everything I believed, before I could understand the basics of relationships; spiritually or physically.

Just a note on what Joseph Campbell says about a marriage; because that is what you are really talking about here. He says (in my words) that the two that existed before marriage both must die and are no longer viable entities after marriage, because what has been created is ‘The Relationship’, the ‘marriage’, the one that appears to be two, but is really one. The ego consciousness of the two individuals must be voluntarily disassociated, dishonoured, and must die, so that the marriage can grow as the new entity. Sort of like what he says about when a baby is born, the life of the parents (the whole society after 6 years old in a harmonious society) is dedicated to the new life and so the importance of the parents’ individual life is dead.

I think I’m waffling again so I’ll stop and say how this subject you have enquired about is the most important one for humanity to grasp, but not intellectually. This subject is the crux of true spirituality and living a grounded, balanced physical life too, because to understand it fully is to get our mind past the pairs of opposites and to the oneness. As long as there are individual egos there will always be these sexual relations problems. Incidentally these problems don’t just cause suffering for women, but also subtly for men, as I well and truly know about; and it may be that I still suffer from, even though I think I have worked on all my cellular memory.

Now I'm more confused than before. I guess I have not realized the truth you are talking about... Are you saying that in your reality - polygamy is normal ? Its just us diseased people do not realy understand the whole concept?

I do agree that we have to love everything and everyone, but I was talking about intimate relationships, not necessary considering it to be forever, but as long as it lasts, if both parties grows in the same direction...

And your quote

" It is the genuine caring, interdependence (I depend on you for… and you can depend on me for…), and respect that are the most important things in ANY relationship"

it was exactly what I was talking about...

Namaste'

“Are you saying that in your reality - polygamy is normal ? Its just us desiesed people do not realy understand the whole concept?”

In a way yes, but you must realise that our language governs the way we think. The source of nature, Great Spirit, is beyond the concepts of duality and is therefore beyond anything our mind can grasp and yet this is the only tool we have to try to understand nature and Great Spirit; that is why all the older traditions have so much symbolism in all there story telling so to get to the transcendent messages. Our English language is one of the worst examples of the limiting of consciousness, and I believe that the evolution of English has a lot to do with the controlling of the many by a few.

Polygamy is a modern term that has all sorts of connotations, and the word ‘normal’ is ridiculous and means nothing since there is no such thing as normal. It is a term used to make people believe and behave the way other people want them to. And as you should know from the shaman principles reality is whatever you think it is since again there is no substance in anything. This is where quantum physics is as close as we can get; because, like the older traditions, quantum physics is full of symbolic terminology.

What I am saying is that hardly anyone today really understands nature or the source of nature, Great Spirit, and that is where all our problems stem from. I’m not saying that I know all there is because I’m fully aware that I too am limited by all the same things that everyone else is; I only speak fluently in English, but I have experienced, learnt, and observed enough to know how limiting this language is. And I must remind you that all languages, except the first language (mind to mind), is limiting.

Yes I did know what you were saying regarding the interdependence, but I wanted to emphasise the concept of deep, genuine caring, and respect; and to make sure you understood the depth of the term interdependence. And I didn’t want to buy into your statement:

“I don't indend to blame anyone here, but want to understand the purpose, advantages, and disatvantages polygamouse societies,

(yes it probably happens in the mouse population too, since they have not deviated from nature; there are so many of them – poly=many )

their believes and actions and the benefits to the world at large.”

Again the concepts of advantage, disadvantage, benefits, or purpose are part of the controlling mechanisms of our language. Joseph Campbell asks: what is the purpose of a flea? While our western mind can ramble on with all the things a flea does, the benefits and problems they can cause, none of that has anything to do with a purpose. What is the purpose of life? It just is. And all we have to do is just be. And the Buddha simply held up a flower to also get this message across.

If you really want to see a ‘benefit’ in polygamy it would be that since there are always more females in any population than males, every female deserves to be cared for and have all her needs met and this can only happen if there are males who are capable and willing to care for more than one female.

Hello Sitting Owl,

Thanks for your patients answering my e-mails and explaining things over and over again. It is much appreciated. I guess it is not easy to describe things when the person is not always getting it....

I wish I could see the things with no judgment and an open mind, but it doesn't always works that way.

I am aware that my male part is not happy to be constantly criticized, but I can’t help it, its as if it is deep in my blood...

"If you really want to see a ‘benefit’ in polygamy it would be that since there are always more females in any population than males, every female deserves to be cared for and have all her needs met and this can only happen if there are males who are capable and willing to care for more than one female."

I do agree that it is good that a male cares for several females, as this is ok in friendships. But does it mean they have to have sex with every female they get in contact with just because both parties feel desire for it? This is the part that I don't get it...

Namaste' Anonymous

If I have the right persistence, patience, and alertness to answer your emails it is what I need to have just to be an Earth Person, but I also need the courage to see, look closely at, and understand my own cellular memory as it comes up while I am answering questions and giving advice. And I can assure you that you are not the only one not getting it; and most aren’t even interested in looking for it; whatever it is as ‘it’ is always just the Great Mystery.

You don’t get it because you have beliefs and maybe cellular memories that are not in harmony with nature. Also you are trying to relate this natural stuff to current so called ‘normal’ beliefs about life, sex, and relationships. Beliefs, knowledge, and understanding come from the mind; nature, spirit, and wisdom come from the heart. We all need to learn how to get out of the mind, let go of all beliefs, and open the spiritual heart of nature. If you are truly interested in what true shamanism is all about, these are your first and most important steps. However I will warn you that you must go through your own schizophrenic crack up that will make you a social outcast, but will eventually connect you in a grounded way to nature and Great Spirit; you will then need to find your own way to walk in both worlds until the social world connects with nature.

I strongly recommend you re read everything I have said with a total openness that is devoid of any beliefs about what life is all about, or how things ‘should’ be; have the innocence, wonder, and blank slate of a new born baby.

The criticism of your male self is not really in your blood, but is deep in your cellular memory; like a scratched record that has been played over and over again allowing the needle to follow the scratch. This is understandable since for the last few hundred to thousand years the female of our species has justifiably had criticism for the males and this isn’t limited to the actual males responsible, but paints all male energy with it; even the innocent males and male energy within everyone. Just like the only process of fixing the record, it will perhaps take hundreds of years of conscious effort to know where that needle plays the true natural music and to hold it there every time it comes around to that scratch. Eventually the record will play fine by itself, but the scratch will still be faint and in the back of the consciousness of the future women who will still need to be recognising it so that some other future damage does not re-cut across the music. If you know what I mean by the analogy of the record; I’m sure some people who have grown up with only CD’s would not get that analogy; which is also why any mythology, which is full of symbolism and analogy must be relevant to the current society while still fulfilling the four functions.

I’m afraid there is no quick fix, as much as the mainstream would have us all believe otherwise. The scratched record analogy is the cure because cellular memory is like the grooves of a record and most people have many very deep scratches in their cellular memory, but it takes time, persistence, patience, alertness, and courage; yes the attributes of an Earth Person. I understand that your shamanic path is very much helping other women understand the true concepts of ‘relationships’ as they try to understand what has gone wrong. It is the society’s scratches that in turn scratch the individuals’ cellular memory before the record gets to play the correct tune of nature.

One of the major things you and those you help, like your friend, will have to deal with is the blaming of yourself or the ex. There is nothing that needs to be understood about the past situation because there will be no natural rhyme or reason in any of it; basically society is to blame so the main thing that will help is knowing what the natural record is supposed to sound like so that the needle of consciousness can ride over the cracks and scratches and begin playing the music of nature again. And of course this will be very difficult while the mainstream will be insisting that the scratch is the real music.

I’m not sure if you understand all this that I’m saying here because it does sound a bit confusing with all the analogy etc., but analogy, like mythology, is the only way to get the message to the ego thinking consciousness. Remember ego is not a dirty word it is simply our middle conscious thinking process that also has a cellular memory that can be over ridden with the attributes of an Earth Person.

I really feel that it is through the healing of all our women that humanity has any hope of healing; and I don’t mean through women gaining power in the current world view because that only happens when women ignore their true femaleness and over develop their aggressive, all action oriented, male energies. Then the women who are in any place of power in our world are actually more male than female, and that serves no true purpose or benefit. There I go using those worldly terms of purpose and benefit.

Thank you Sitting Owl for your constant encouragement, teachings, support and blessings.

Namaste' Anonymous

That is what I'm here for and I hope I have been of some help.

I have one other thought on this subject that I think is important. I was thinking about the reasons for the beliefs and attachments to monogamous relationships and realised that it is because of the natural need for women to be cared for and to feel security in knowing that their needs will be met. This means that they have to be able to rely on someone and that is more likely to happen if that person has an attachment to them, which is why most women are looking for a relationship with just one man who will be loyal, caring, and dedicated solely to her.

I can see that this all stems back to the information in the first book I read called ‘The Sex Contract’, where during our evolution we had to stand upright (having to forage further and be in the hot sun and evolving accordingly). The women therefore had to give birth to younger, more dependant infants as a result of the new anatomy from standing upright. And therefore they didn’t have the time and couldn’t forage to find the food they and their infant needed. So a psychological contract evolved that basically said that if the males wanted to have sex they would have to go and bring the food back for the women. And I see this as the beginning of a one on one monogamous relationship as well as the concepts of reward and punishment, bribery, and manipulation.